Author Topic: God and imperfection  (Read 39 times)

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Offline KerimF

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God and imperfection
« on: August 29, 2018, 08:59:43 am »
I became sure that Jesus (as presented on the Arabic Gospel I have) is in the Will/Power that created me (and created the universe in which I was born) after I saw in Him the perfect teacher.
Does this let me be a Christian? Of course it doesn't.

A typical Christian is supposed to worship Jesus and see in Him "The Saviour". He is not supposed to learn from Jesus as being the sole perfect teacher (about life) in human history. A typical Christian has to look for the Truth (the set of answers related to his important questions about life) from many other sources (starting from the Jewish prophets).

It is rather easy saying that Jesus is God. But it is not easy at all saying that Jesus teachings are perfect. After all, they are perfect only to those who are born of the Spirit too. But to those who are created to serve the material world, hence born of the flesh only, Jesus teachings sound nonsense unless they can be used to gain more money and power, besides being famous (as in politics).

After I discovered that Jesus is indeed perfect in His message (His teachings, sayings and way of life) and, therefore, I didn't need any other source to get/confirm the logical answers to all my important questions that I was looking for, I couldn't present myself as being Christian. I guess I am just a free independent disciple of Jesus Christ.

For instance, a real teacher doesn't look for followers. And, as a loving father, he enjoys seeing each of his students succeed in what he does after being armed by the knowledge he needed.

So I wonder how a person succeed in convincing himself that Jesus is God but He came with the inability (for some reasons I can't guess) to be the perfect source of knowledge. Yes, I am afraid it is very clear that the last two statements contradict each other, but I also used hearing different logic of mine. I am all ears ;)

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Offline HOLLAND

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Re: God and imperfection
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2018, 09:14:25 am »
^^^I don't understand you, KerimF.  If we can understand that Jesus is God and that Jesus became incarnate as a human, it must follow that Jesus must live in the paradox of being both human and divine.  If this reality is manifold, in a certain sense, he has omniscience.  At other times he would have seemingly imperfect knowledge.

If something is asserted to be a paradox, it is not something that can be admitted to a total rational explanation.  But haven't you seen the human phenomena of people who know things perfectly well seem to be forgetful or somehow not know the same things at various periods of their lives?  And this something seems to be more than a problem of memory . . .
The humble, meek, merciful, just, pious and devout souls are everywhere of one religion; and when death has taken off the mask, they will know one another though the divers liveries they wear here make them strangers.
William Penn (1644-1718) from Some Fruits of Solitude (1718)

Offline KerimF

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Re: God and imperfection
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2018, 11:37:43 am »
^^^I don't understand you, KerimF.  If we can understand that Jesus is God and that Jesus became incarnate as a human, it must follow that Jesus must live in the paradox of being both human and divine.  If this reality is manifold, in a certain sense, he has omniscience.  At other times he would have seemingly imperfect knowledge.

If something is asserted to be a paradox, it is not something that can be admitted to a total rational explanation.  But haven't you seen the human phenomena of people who know things perfectly well seem to be forgetful or somehow not know the same things at various periods of their lives?  And this something seems to be more than a problem of memory . . .

Let me walk with you and admit that Jesus has to be imperfect in his teachings for putting on a human living flesh.

Now, I wonder which truth, very important to you, was revealed in a way better than Jesus did or perhaps He missed it completely.

Thank you.

 




Offline HOLLAND

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Re: God and imperfection
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2018, 10:13:42 pm »
Let me walk with you and admit that Jesus has to be imperfect in his teachings for putting on a human living flesh.

Why, KerimF, does putting on human flesh lead to imperfection in his teachings?

Quote
Now, I wonder which truth, very important to you, was revealed in a way better than Jesus did or perhaps He missed it completely.

Thank you.

I doubt that any truth that I've learned was revealed in a way better than Jesus.  I cannot imagine that Jesus has missed the truth of something.  Could you explain what you mean?


 




[/quote]
The humble, meek, merciful, just, pious and devout souls are everywhere of one religion; and when death has taken off the mask, they will know one another though the divers liveries they wear here make them strangers.
William Penn (1644-1718) from Some Fruits of Solitude (1718)

Offline KerimF

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Re: God and imperfection
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2018, 04:33:03 am »
Why, KerimF, does putting on human flesh lead to imperfection in his teachings?

I doubt that any truth that I've learned was revealed in a way better than Jesus.  I cannot imagine that Jesus has missed the truth of something.  Could you explain what you mean?

I am sorry. From your reply #1, I understood the exact opposite of what you try telling me now ;)

So let me check if I understand you well this time :)

For example, you seem agreeing with me that God's teachings that were addressed to the ancient Jews became obsolete, after the arrival of Jesus Christ, for being no more important (as my school books are souvenirs to me now) or for being fully updated by Jesus.