Author Topic: What is the Conscience?  (Read 120 times)

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Offline Kerry

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What is the Conscience?
« on: September 07, 2017, 06:40:53 pm »
When I think of the conscience, I think of it as having two parts, emotional and mental.   

The emotional part tells us if we've made someone happier or sadder.  If we say something without thinking that wounds another person,  we didn't mean to hurt his feelings but we did.   The  pang of regret of realizing we injured someone is a message from the heart which is naturally loving informing us that we failed to express love and should try to correct the situation.

The mental part is important too.   If we truly care about others, we are obliged to learn from our mistakes.  We can be excused for saying something that wounds someone because we didn't think about it -- once, maybe twice.   But if we truly care, we will discipline ourselves and be more careful with our words.   

The emotional part of the conscience is not sufficient by itself.   Sometimes the right thing to do means distressing some people who want something different; but if we know what they want would lead to disaster, we should oppose them vigorously even if it means displeasing them, hurting their feelings or even having them hate us.   If you discovered food had spoiled and put it on the counter getting ready to throw it out, you would not allow a child to eat it.  He could throw a tantrum,  threaten you, whatever -- but if you loved the child, you would not be swayed by his emotions or by your regret about the situation.    Similarly, you might hate someone and not care that much about him; and you might not ever know what his reaction would be  -- but you should do what is right and not "harden your heart" saying you didn't care.  Even if you don't care,  you can act as if you do.

What is a singed conscience?  I think that's the result of refusing to acknowledge the directive of the natural heart to show love and to be compassionate.  If we ignore that long enough, it hardens the heart and we cease to care.   This can be corrected, of course, by using the mind to direct us in the right direction.   If we don't love, we can still use our minds to make sure our actions are loving -- doing this is a form of circumcising the heart.   

I believe we risk singeing our consciences every time we say, "Sorry" but fail to think about how to avoid repeating the mistake.  If we are truly sorry for our part in the matter, we must think about it and resolve to do better.   The first offense is a sin of ignorance; but after that, it becomes a willful sin since who can plead ignorance?   

Someone who repeats his mistakes endlessly and keeps saying he's sorry may be sorry but he's not sorry about his part in things.  He may be sorry he upset others because they might take revenge, he might lose their trust, or they may avoid him -- that's what he's sorry about.   That can't end well since he's creating more problems for himself.  I believe if we meet someone like this, we should struggle with him over it for his own good.  We should not keep saying, "Oh, that's okay." We should try to get him to fix the problem; but saying it's okay can be the easy thing.  To me, that is like having a child who eats too much candy and is getting obese.  Every time you catch him eating, he says he's sorry.   He'll keep doing it if you allow him to get away with it.   By the time he's so fat he regrets it, it will be too late for him to avoid many problems that could have been avoided.  You're not doing him any favors by being easy on him.  The informed conscience will tell you to get severe if needed.    My first step would be telling him I was not buying any more candy if he kept overdoing it.  So what if he throws a tantrum?   

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Offline Helen

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Re: What is the Conscience?
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2017, 08:52:27 pm »
I haven't thought about the conscience for ages..maybe years.  A person is not aware of our conscience..our emotions yes...even our soul...but the conscience? Not me.

Do you see the conscience as part of the spirit or the soul?
Spirit = *conscience, *fellowship, and *intuition.
It seems the the conscience ...is for us to discern right from wrong, to justify or to condemn.
 Romans 9:1 says.. 'his conscience baring witness in the Holy Sprit.'   This looks like it is part of the spirit, as our spirit 'comes alive' when we are born anew of the Holy Spirit.

I must admit, I get myself all confused when I think about them all too much...I just wish in one way that it was only "body, soul and spirit"...forgetting the heart, mind, will, emotions, conscience etc!!  :D
Finding out where they all 'lodge' and which is connected to which, for me is not easy.



Offline coldwar

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Re: What is the Conscience?
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2018, 10:12:07 am »
I'm starting to think that the conscience, especially in it's "perception" part can be easily damaged. Lately, I'm aware that there are so many people who cannot perceive the world around them correctly, almost as if their conscience (the part of our minds that is actually conscious) is shifted into another reality, if that's even possible. Theirs is a hellish world of paranoia, mania, physical illness and personality disorder, and they desperately want to trip us up into their own traps of mis-perception. Is this even possible? I've met people who administer things like crystals, energies, divining, etc. to heal themselves, and insist it's all to foil some kind of master plot, trying desperately to get those of us who are ill to shift into their world - but they don't even realise what they're doing. My sister-in-law died of cancer being treated with "energies" from another deluded woman who also died of cancer just previously, thinking she was helping herself, and the rest of the world by going to her grave denying she even had cancer! I've also met an older gent who insists some evil "world order" is daily polluting the skies above us with "chemtrails" from aircraft - this man's so paranoid that he built a "chemtrail blaster" in his back yard - a collection of plastic tubing with specific crystals in the base pointing directly up to the sky, blasting holes in an imagined blanket of poison that covers the whole sky. Personally I have actually seen these trails from jets exactly twice in the past 30 years, and both times, it was an exceptionally warm day when it otherwise should have been cool and crisp weather on the ground - read "normal condensation". Keep in mind I live in a high air-traffic part of North America that does not have much in terms of take-offs and landings, but does have hundreds of flights per day of traffic directly overhead from Europe to New York and Toronto.

And yet another guy, who actually runs a financially successful healing business (only because there are enough deluded people who will  pay his exorbitant prices), who would concur with the older man's paranoia, is also pushing free energy devices, and all kinds of ideas about "the cabal who is running the world". On this latter point, I think he's right about a cabal running the world - from geo-politics that should be obvious, but what are we supposed to do about it? We are supposed to simply overcome evil with good, but this guy thinks his side is now winning the war against them, and they are retreating via a secret space program to inhabit Mars! Once the cabal is gone, mankind can once again get on with evolving.

So, can the conscience so badly seared even be reasoned with?

Offline Kerry

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Re: What is the Conscience?
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2018, 02:00:39 pm »
It may appear at times that the conscience is easily damaged; but I think that is an illusion that implies  darkness is more powerful than light.   I think the conscience is our connection with God.  It is how we are like God, made in His image and likeness.   Thus it is not easily overpowered in a way that damages it totally. 

The Bible talks about the heart in a way that conceives of it as having pieces.   It speaks of  hard clay that is dead and brittle and soft clay that is alive human.    If the heart has brittle pieces, it needs circumcising.  The hard pieces can be cut out and replaced with the soft yielding heart that responds to love and reality. 

I think of the conscience mathematically.   Suppose you start off with your heart having a thousand soft pieces and you harden one.    Your good impulses still outnumber your bad ones  99:1.  The odds are with you then that you'll correct the bad one.  If you harden another piece, the ratio goes to 98:2 or 49:1.   The more wrong decisions you make by defying your conscience, the more the heart is hardened and the more corrupt it is with the evil urges assuming more influence.    If you reach the point where the evil is more than the good, the odds really are that by yourself you will not be able to correct yourself on your own.  You need help.  If you accept help,  the good in the other person can work with the good in you to master the evil. 

If we take on Jesus as master,  he combines his good with whatever good we have; and that is always enough to master the evil.  I think most people are born in the 40% to 60% range.  The better shape you are when you accept Jesus, the easier things will be, the faster things can go.  The worse shape you're in, the more bumps there can be in the road and the risk of rebelling against Jesus rises (as in the parable of the wheat which sprouts by then dies quickly). 

Even the most wicked of people can change for the better . . . if he is willing to allow the good in Jesus to work in him; but the harder the heart, the harder  it is for that person to change.  There comes a time when theoretically it is possible for someone to change but the odds are stacked against it.  You could predict failure and almost always be right.  You could be wrong, but you probably wouldn't be.   Thus it was safe enough  to predict that Pharaoh would harden his heart even more than he had in the past.  Pharaoh got pressed hard but refused to allow his heart of hard clay to be replaced by soft.  When pressed hard, he'd say something good and make promises; but once he thought the pressure might be off him, he'd go back on his word.    He  never genuinely repented, only pretended. 

There is a type of person Jesus compared to pigs.  Don't give them pearls since they won't appreciate them.  They'll turn on you and attack you.   It's a good rule.  If you do good for someone and he repays you with evil,  odds are he's a pig.   You're wasting time on him as well as putting yourself in some awkward situations that might damage you.   

Here's the philosophy I think the pigs have.   They believe everyone is probably evil  -- and that if you do something kind for them, obviously you have some hidden agenda to take advantage of them.    Or they interpret your kindness to them as weakness meant to tell them you're weak and don't mean to be a threat -- but if you had the power, you would show your evil.    The person who thinks like this cannot be helped by others being kind to him.  He just returns evil for good -- making his situation worse, hardening his heart further.   The best thing to happen to people who live like pigs is to let them suffer.   Like the Prodigal Son, perhaps after they've suffered enough living like pigs, they'll come to their senses and repent of their craziness. 

I advise studying people's reactions.  I think most people, even those with sour attitudes, respond well when you return good to them for evil.  They say to themselves, "Maybe the world isn't all bad.  Maybe there are good people out there.  Maybe I too can be good."  So they respond back with good.   Always try the good for evil approach first.   Study the responses, and if someone gets worse,  he's not worth persevering with.   The wasted effort you put in with him probably could have been spent on ten other people who will respond favorably.   

If you can see someone is acting like a pig and keep throwing pearls in front of him while he continues to rend you, you may wind up discouraged about the power of Divine Love to change people.  It can tempt you to fall into despair.  Score one for the Dark Side if that happens.   

I recommend caution about the situations you allow yourself in if you start to suspect someone is the returning evil for good sort.    For example,  he or she might accuse you of sexual assault if you don't give in to some demands, perhaps for money, perhaps something else.    He may accuse you of smuggling drugs if you don't agree to get drugs for him.  There are some people who detest goodness in others; and their intention is to corrupt them if they can or bring them down to destruction if they can't corrupt them.   They can spin all kinds of stories; and maybe other people will believe them. 

Why would anyone detest goodness in others?  It makes them feel guilty; and every time they choose to detest good, they're hardening their hearts again in a vain attempt to sooth their conscience.   Hell was made for (by) such people.  They can be among others like themselves without feeling too guilty.   It's ironic really that people can become so twisted that they prefer misery over being around goodness.  Yet it is so, and I think you can observe it in some people.    Another thing the conscience tells them is that they shouldn't be around good people.   They prefer to be among bad people since they feel less guilty when they offend.   

Evil often suspects good of wishing to torment it.   It makes sense in a twisted sort of way since goodness in others can torment the conscience of evil. 

Luke 8:28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.

Why would he imagine that Jesus would want to torment him?   It really is strange, I think; but some people can get so far gone, they desire torment.  Some like Pharaoh are even willing to commit suicide if they can't "win."     

If someone returns evil for good, beware. 

Offline HOLLAND

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Re: What is the Conscience?
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2018, 10:27:13 pm »
I'm starting to think that the conscience, especially in it's "perception" part can be easily damaged. Lately, I'm aware that there are so many people who cannot perceive the world around them correctly, almost as if their conscience (the part of our minds that is actually conscious) is shifted into another reality, if that's even possible. Theirs is a hellish world of paranoia, mania, physical illness and personality disorder, and they desperately want to trip us up into their own traps of mis-perception.

I think, coldwar, that conscience can be viewed as a mental judgment about something and that it is shaped by God, the individual in question, and society.  I would agree that perception of a moral matter is part of the working of conscience.  Perception as a component of conscience, to me, is a working of God's grace.  For those who are granted a well-founded conscience, are, in turned, granted the human wisdom of the informed judgment needed to make and have a tender conscience that is valued in the sight of God and of society.

Quote
Is this even possible? I've met people who administer things like crystals, energies, divining, etc. to heal themselves, and insist it's all to foil some kind of master plot, trying desperately to get those of us who are ill to shift into their world - but they don't even realise what they're doing. My sister-in-law died of cancer being treated with "energies" from another deluded woman who also died of cancer just previously, thinking she was helping herself, and the rest of the world by going to her grave denying she even had cancer! I've also met an older gent who insists some evil "world order" is daily polluting the skies above us with "chemtrails" from aircraft - this man's so paranoid that he built a "chemtrail blaster" in his back yard - a collection of plastic tubing with specific crystals in the base pointing directly up to the sky, blasting holes in an imagined blanket of poison that covers the whole sky. Personally I have actually seen these trails from jets exactly twice in the past 30 years, and both times, it was an exceptionally warm day when it otherwise should have been cool and crisp weather on the ground - read "normal condensation". Keep in mind I live in a high air-traffic part of North America that does not have much in terms of take-offs and landings, but does have hundreds of flights per day of traffic directly overhead from Europe to New York and Toronto.

And yet another guy, who actually runs a financially successful healing business (only because there are enough deluded people who will  pay his exorbitant prices), who would concur with the older man's paranoia, is also pushing free energy devices, and all kinds of ideas about "the cabal who is running the world". On this latter point, I think he's right about a cabal running the world - from geo-politics that should be obvious, but what are we supposed to do about it? We are supposed to simply overcome evil with good, but this guy thinks his side is now winning the war against them, and they are retreating via a secret space program to inhabit Mars! Once the cabal is gone, mankind can once again get on with evolving.

So, can the conscience so badly seared even be reasoned with?

Miss-perception is possible and so I would answer yes to your first question.  We all carry within ourselves the limitations of our perceptions.  We must make mistakes in perception and also in conscience.  Given God's grace, I believed that the well-formed, tender conscience is open to change and correction.  It is the marvel of God's grace.

In answer to your second question, I think that it is difficult to reason with someone who has a seared conscience.  I think of the seared conscience as being a conscience that has closed itself off from the mind and grace of God  I think that part of the searing is the turning away from that grace and suffering the burning destruction of the sense of God's kindly wisdom and of the impending judgment that must come when God's grace is rejected.

I think that Kerry was right to observe conscience being a way of knowing God in the world.  This view was developed and regarded as important in New England Transcendentalism, among the writers, Henry David Thoreau and Ralph Waldo Emerson.  I would, particularly, recommend Emerson's essays where he alludes to the subject of conscience. 

Though they viewed conscience as a form of human wisdom, given that they believed that humanity received the influx of the spirit of the divine in the Oversoul; for them, human wisdom in its deepest sense was, paradoxically, also, and expression of the divine wisdom.  For them, conscience was bound up in intuition, another form of human activity.  They believed that in the deepest sense, it was, also, paradoxically, divine activity in the life of human activity.  Perhaps in considering these men and their writings, conscience will need to be seen in relation to intuition, and to a practiced simplicity and simplification of one's life that would make it possible to clearly see, and to grow in human and divine wisdom, as it is known by both the conscience and intuition.
The humble, meek, merciful, just, pious and devout souls are everywhere of one religion; and when death has taken off the mask, they will know one another though the divers liveries they wear here make them strangers.
William Penn (1644-1718) from Some Fruits of Solitude (1718)

Offline paralambano

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Re: What is the Conscience?
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2018, 12:55:12 pm »
coldwar -

I don't know that the incidents you gave are examples of conscience necessarily since people can be sincerely deluded about what they believe. It's when they're ignoring nagging questions about it that the conscience is involved or if they know what they're "peddling" is fraudulent. If they're not willing to be reasoned with about what they believe, they'll continue in their delusion until they suffer by it.


para .   .   .   .

Offline Kerry

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Re: What is the Conscience?
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2018, 05:10:26 pm »
coldwar -

I don't know that the incidents you gave are examples of conscience necessarily since people can be sincerely deluded about what they believe. It's when they're ignoring nagging questions about it that the conscience is involved or if they know what they're "peddling" is fraudulent. If they're not willing to be reasoned with about what they believe, they'll continue in their delusion until they suffer by it.


para .   .   .   .
I missed this somehow.   I think there are some passages in the Bible that are often read as threats by God to punish people but really are expressing regret that some people don't change until they see their delusions bring them suffering.   I do not read the following to mean that God is going to curse anyone because He's angry about people disobeying Him.   It does not say God is going to curse anyone.  I read it as a statement of fact:  Do the right thing, and you get the right result.  Do the wrong thing, and you get the wrong result.   

Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

We  need to take into account if what we're doing is getting good results.   If it isn't, then we need to re-examine how we look at things.  Is our conscience informed?   I believe the warped or seared conscience can be changed, but only by altering our hearts.   If the heart is hard and continues to be hardened,  things can only get worse as they did for Pharaoh. 

Offline paralambano

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Re: What is the Conscience?
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2018, 07:00:10 pm »
Kerry  -  ^

Ya. I think that if one doesn't heed their conscience, they're essentially rejecting good for whatever the dream brings for one and it very well could be the evil one has wished for others.


para  .  .  .  .

Offline Kerry

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Re: What is the Conscience?
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2018, 10:34:35 pm »
Kerry  -  ^

Ya. I think that if one doesn't heed their conscience, they're essentially rejecting good for whatever the dream brings for one and it very well could be the evil one has wished for others.


para  .  .  .  .
I figure that most of the time the evil we receive is the evil we wished on others.   If something bad happens to me, my first question is if I ever wished that on someone else.  There have been times I couldn't answer truthfully since I wasn't sure; so I prayed for forgiveness just in case and asked Heaven to stop me if I ever was about to do it. 

There is another way of receiving the evil, doing it on behalf of others so we understand them.  We can  temporarily take on some of the burdens of others as Jesus did, and as Paul talked about.  Some say Paul contradicted himself here; but I don't think so.

Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
5 For every man shall bear his own burden.


Not everyone can absorb the evils of the dreams of men; but those who can and do are be counted among the blessed.

Luke 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.


Offline paralambano

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Re: What is the Conscience?
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2018, 07:47:26 am »
Kerry -- ^

Ya.

Giving blessings to those who would do us evil means seeing past the illusion of evil in them by appearance to the image of God/Good that's actually there (judging not by appearance but rightly) means freeing ourselves from the illusions we have of ourselves as well. We see our "enemies" as God's beloved children but rue their errors. We all are the perfect reflection of God now (Paul's epiphanous now we are sons of God) because Infinite Perfection has made it impossible to actually be evil. The "picture" we are projecting by our wrong way of thinking (carnal mind) begins to change for the better as consciousness rises to be one with Consciousness and we see the creation as it always is, very good, the symbol of the rose in carnality/finite materiality exchanged for its glorious, permanent, everlasting, essence-reality. That's the practicality of the paradigm.


Ol' plastic pail rollin' on the ground para  .  .  .  .