Author Topic: Liberty University  (Read 466 times)

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Offline Kerry

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Re: Liberty University
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2018, 08:45:20 pm »
Let us be rational.
No one can address a group of people and please them all. In one case only someone can; if he repeats what all of his audience already know and believe ;)

I am afraid that, as any ruling system in the world cannot survive without corruption of some sorts, formal religious systems (not necessarily Christian) cannot survive without serving, directly or indirectly, their high class (if they are not the high class in their society already).

So, for example, I would be real surprised if I hear, on TV, a local priest (of any sect) who doesn't discuss political matters while he talks about Jesus' Love :D

 
People can be seduced into evil using that kind of psychology.  It is similar to that of the mark of the beast.   

Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

False religion thinks like that; and we can expect the religions of this world to behave like that, but it's not true. 

See Jesus on the Cross.  Look at him.  Did he say he needed to become corrupt in order to survive?  That he needed to fit in with the priestly class of the Jews or the ruling class of the Romans?    That his message would not survive unless he allowed himself to be corrupted?   

Now consider the time of year when he was crucified.  Passover when all the yeast was to be removed.  A little leaven leavens the whole loaf.  A tiny bit of evil corrupts the whole:   If we say we must allow some evil in order to serve the greater good, we are making a bargain with the Devil.  We are plucking the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and putting it in  our mouths.   That fruit is not of the knowledge of good -- and of the knowledge of evil.  Adam and Eve knew what good was -- they could see all the works of God in the Garden of Eden.  They knew what good was.  Eve saw what was good about it!

Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

What they did not know, and what we fallen humans know  is how good and evil get mixed together -- and how we can justify our evil by saying if we do evil, then good will come.   Adam and Eve also knew what evil was.  They knew they were not supposed to eat that fruit; but they ate and then offered excuses.  They had "good" reasons for doing "evil." It wasn't their fault!

Adam's excuse:

12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

Adam blamed Eve.  He also blamed God  since God was responsible for Eve.   Can you see that that is similar to your philosophy that God made the world this way?   

Eve's excuse:

13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

Not her fault, right?   It was all the serpent's fault.  She's also blaming God to a certain extent since obviously God allowed the serpent in the Garden.   

We ought not impute any error or responsibility for evil to God. We ought not believe God created the world evil the way we see it.  We did it, not God.  And at times we do it for "good" reasons.  In comes the little bit of yeast or leaven when we excuse a little evil for the greater good.   Jesus was talking here about how religion can get corrupted: 

Matthew 16:11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?
12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.


The truth is that the reverse is true.  The corruption of this world is weak although it looks strong to us; it contains within it the seeds of its own destruction.  The truth will last.  Error is temporary, truth is eternal.

Recently the Archbishop of Canterbury said that Christianity was threatened in the Middle East.  He warned that Christianity might disappear soon.   That's what he said.

https://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/asia/item/30803-archbishop-of-canterbury-says-middle-east-christians-face-extinction

In the last few years, they have been slaughtered by so-called Islamic State, and in many countries they find themselves squeezed between the upper and lower millstones of pressure on them within society and of conflicts that afflict the region.

Many have left. Hundreds of thousands have been forced from their homes. Many have been killed, enslaved and persecuted or forcibly converted. Even those who remain ask the question, ‘Why stay?’ The Christian population of Iraq, for instance, is less than half what it was in 2003 and their churches, houses and businesses have been damaged or destroyed. The Syrian Christian population has halved since 2010. As a result, across the region Christian communities that were the foundation of the universal Church now face the threat of imminent extinction.


I say he's mistaken.    The Archbishop might look at the state of Christianity within his own country before trying to look at it in Syria.  Christianity is really under the threat of extinction in England more than in Syria.    Anglican Churches are  emptying out. 

November 14, 2018  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/14/attendance-church-of-england-sunday-services-falls-again

Annual statistics released on Wednesday by the C of E also showed a decline in the number of people turning to the church for key life events. The church conducted 106,000 baptisms and services of thanksgiving for a new child in 2017, compared with 120,000 the year before; 41,000 marriages compared with 45,000 in 2016; and 133,000 funerals compared with 139,000.

The statistics follow a pattern of fewer people identifying with the church, or any organised religion. Figures published by the British Social Attitudes survey in September showed that affiliation with the C of E was at a record low, at 14% – and down to 2% among young adults. More than half the population said they had no religion.


The Catholic churches in the UK would have closed long ago  if there weren't immigrants from other countries attending. 

So what excuse do they have?  Terrorists aren't attacking them.  Christians aren't being driven into exile in the UK. 

Appearances can be deceiving.  I say Christianity is being purified in some places like the Middle East, China and Africa.  Only people truly dedicated to the message of Divine Love will continue as Christians.    In places like Europe and the Americas,  the "rich" form of Christianity is decaying.  If they continue to cling to their riches, sooner or later they face sudden destruction.

Revelation 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

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Re: Liberty University
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2018, 10:36:30 pm »
What we may see as imperfection in the world are simply natural world's characteristics as created by Heaven.
Do you believe the condition of the world is as it is because that's the way God created it and wanted it to be? This reminds me of predestination which calls into question free will and some other things. I could be wrong and just misunderstanding you.
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For example, how could I oppose my flesh's instincts and live the unconditional love/care towards enemies if no one in the world can play the role of enemy :D
Yes I suppose something can be learned from that. I don't think God created man to have enemies. That happened after the fall. Having enemies is not a good thing. Didn't God create everything good?

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In brief, I just like discovering the world as it is (and Jesus helped me in this to no limit) so that I know how to live in it while feeding my soul as much as possible.
I also want to know why the world is the way it is and the factors that figure into that. One thing I'm sure of is that it's not the way God intended it to be.

Offline KerimF

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Re: Liberty University
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2018, 07:01:59 am »
See Jesus on the Cross.  Look at him.  Did he say he needed to become corrupt in order to survive?  That he needed to fit in with the priestly class of the Jews or the ruling class of the Romans?    That his message would not survive unless he allowed himself to be corrupted?   

Sorry, if I couldn't understand well the point of your analogy.

Jesus doesn't represent, in any way, any sort of ruling system (that has to impose rules in order to survive and protect itself).

And the today's living miracle of Jesus, that no one can deny, is that no ruling system in the world has the power to ban the printing of Jesus Message (on books and/or via e-books). And, at the same time, all ruling systems (the rich powerful high classes) don't allow anyone to address the world (as their privileged actors do, mainly via satellites) exactly as Jesus did (as mentioned on the Gospel in our hands).

Offline KerimF

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Re: Liberty University
« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2018, 07:37:07 am »
Do you believe the condition of the world is as it is because that's the way God created it and wanted it to be? This reminds me of predestination which calls into question free will and some other things. I could be wrong and just misunderstanding you.
Yes I suppose something can be learned from that. I don't think God created man to have enemies. That happened after the fall. Having enemies is not a good thing. Didn't God create everything good?
I also want to know why the world is the way it is and the factors that figure into that. One thing I'm sure of is that it's not the way God intended it to be.

Let us remember that good and evil things are actually relative to the person who sees them.
For example, an atheist may wish to live thousands if not millions of years ;) So when this atheist hears that there is a Creator, he automatically comments that this Creator is actually a powerful evil mass killer (and he, the atheist, will be one of his victims, sooner or later).

I am afraid that facts are facts; there are no good or evil facts... just facts.
Jesus wasn't kidding when he said:
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law."
Jesus is just reminding me (or us if you like) how the real world is created.

So if someone had to become a thief for example, he would see another thief as being a normal person. And if a honest person tries to join a gang of thieves, he would be considered as an evil person, not a good one ;)

Jesus helped me (also guided, when necessary, by the Holy Spirit I have accepted in me since very long) to see Heaven's wisdom in any fact I observe. I confess this is not easy to do. So I also understand when someone find hard to believe that strong earthquakes, heavy storms and natural big fires are also in Heaven's Plan.     


Offline Kerry

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Re: Liberty University
« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2018, 07:53:25 am »
Sorry, if I couldn't understand well the point of your analogy.

Jesus doesn't represent, in any way, any sort of ruling system (that has to impose rules in order to survive and protect itself).

And the today's living miracle of Jesus, that no one can deny, is that no ruling system in the world has the power to ban the printing of Jesus Message (on books and/or via e-books). And, at the same time, all ruling systems (the rich powerful high classes) don't allow anyone to address the world (as their privileged actors do, mainly via satellites) exactly as Jesus did (as mentioned on the Gospel in our hands).
Good shepherds are willing to risk their lives for their sheep.  That's the rule they use, and they are willing to take action when predators attack their sheep.  The sheep know this and follow their shepherd voluntarily and rationally.   

False shepherds are out for themselves.  Their rules are meant to make them rich and powerful. Sometimes they prey sexually on the members of their churches.    There is no love there, not in their rules.   

Jesus will impose his rule when the majority of mankind wants it.  Yes, there is a democratic aspect to the Kingdom of God; and when the majority of mankind is tired of the predatory religious and political leaders and turn to Jesus, he will impose his rules on the wicked -- not to punish them but to protect the innocent the way a shepherd uses his rod to bash wolves.

God has a rod of iron to hit the "wolves" with.   The innocent and loving are not afraid of his rod.  They find it comforting.

Psalm 23:The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.
. . .
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.


I would say God has definite rules  -- but meant, of course, to benefit men, not Himself.  One is that Heaven will not intervene if two parties  disagree unless one is completely innocent. If they are both guilty to a certain extent, God will not intervene. 

We ought to behave the same way, not intervening in a quarrel out of favoritism.  What I'm seeing in some Christian leaders in America is pure favoritism.  They want more rights for Christians than for non-Christians -- and they want the government to make it so.  In mostly Muslim countries, we often see the religious leaders wanting Muslims to be treated better than non-Muslims; and we see how things are playing out now in India where Hindus are becoming very political.






Offline KerimF

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Re: Liberty University
« Reply #45 on: December 16, 2018, 08:32:16 am »
I would say God has definite rules  -- but meant, of course, to benefit men, not Himself.

I am afraid that, in this case, these rules are better called advices ;)

You didn't tell me. How, in your opinion, does the good shepherd, Jesus, protects his sheep; you for example?
I know it sounds a simple question though its answer is not :D

Offline Kerry

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Re: Liberty University
« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2018, 04:25:16 pm »
I am afraid that, in this case, these rules are better called advices ;)

You didn't tell me. How, in your opinion, does the good shepherd, Jesus, protects his sheep; you for example?
I know it sounds a simple question though its answer is not :D
That's a complicated subject.  One thing perhaps I should say is I don't need to fear death.  If the worst this world can do is kill me,  that's not something to be afraid of.  I'm going to die anyway, so why fear those who can kill the body?  That is a message I see taught by Jesus on the Cross.   

Perhaps we are all lost sheep, and Jesus came to find us to take us home. 

Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Offline KerimF

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Re: Liberty University
« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2018, 07:04:48 pm »
That's a complicated subject.  One thing perhaps I should say is I don't need to fear death.  If the worst this world can do is kill me,  that's not something to be afraid of.  I'm going to die anyway, so why fear those who can kill the body?  That is a message I see taught by Jesus on the Cross.   

Perhaps we are all lost sheep, and Jesus came to find us to take us home. 

Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Good answer.
Meanwhile, I enjoy watching and discovering the material world as a neutral observer. After all, I am no more a son of the World but a son of Heaven instead.

Offline Kerry

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Re: Liberty University
« Reply #48 on: January 03, 2019, 09:24:27 pm »
Does Falwell realize how silly he sounds?  People who don't support Trump "may be immoral," he says -- never mind if Trump is immoral.    Then he says Trump couldn't do anything to lose his support.  Falwell is losing his mind if he hasn't already lost it.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/evangelists-against-trump-may-be-immoral-falwell/ar-BBRGVhl

Liberty University President Jerry Falwell Jr. claimed that it “may be immoral” for evangelicals leaders “not to support” President Donald Trump in a recent interview.

During his conversation with Washington Post journalist Joe Helm, published on Tuesday, Falwell argued that all Christians should support the president.

“You’ve been criticized by some other evangelical leaders about your support for the president. They say you need to demand higher moral and ethical standards. You disagree with them on that?” Helm asked Falwell Jr.

“It may be immoral for them not to support him because he’s got African American employment to record highs, Hispanic employment to record highs,” the lawyer and university administrator said. “They need to look at what the president did for the poor. A lot of the people who criticized me, because they had a hard time stomaching supporting someone who owned casinos and strip clubs or whatever, a lot them have come around and said, ‘Yeah, you were right.’”

When Helm asked Falwell Jr. whether Trump could do anything to lose his support, he responded: “No.”

Offline paralambano

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Re: Liberty University
« Reply #49 on: January 04, 2019, 07:04:51 am »
Kerry -  ^

What's Falwell gonna do if a church member disagrees with him? Take away their right to listen to him?

Me? Cha!!


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