It is about JW who is unfairly criticized by all of you on this site.I decided to answer your post on this thread as it appears you are criticising what I have stated in this thread. Could I ask where in this thread that I have unfairly criticised the JWs? In other words, what have I stated about the JWs' teachings or practices which are incorrect?
You have so many threads about JWs depicted so negatively.I have one thread, this one. Could you tell me what other threads are about the JWs, except of course the one that you started about the JWs. Perhaps I have not looked at the history of this forum and your 1450 or so posts on this forum.
So I am pointing out how trin churches are much worse than JWs.I commend the JWs for believing that there is One God, the Father, but you agree that the JWs are erroneous on many of their teachings, and I have highlighted a few other teachings where I disagree with the JWs and some of these teachings you endorse. On the other hand, you have some of your own unique teachings, such as the rejection of Paul's ministry and writings. I am not sure if you reject the ministry and writings of Peter and John also.
Psalm 91 is my favorite.Yes, a very comforting Psalm, and it is all positive.
What do you find most encouraging in those chapters?Isaiah 57:15-21 (KJV): 15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones. 16 For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made.
Greetings again Heartsong,Thank you for your response. Yes, I think that we are all going to be surprised when Jesus returns and sorts the faithful from the rest of the religious world. I am fascinated by the prophecy about the birth of Jesus in Micah 5, and this gives a hint at a humble birth. The outworking of this was remarkable, with the need to go to Bethlehem to be registered, and then the birth in the stables. I like the fact that the first notice of this is from the Wise Men that traveled from the East, and their request to Herod and the Pharisees and Sadducees as to where was the King of the Jews born, and the resulting trepidation of the political and religious leaders, as both classes were embedded in seats of power in Jerusalem, but Jesus was born in Bethlehem, associated with the Shepherd King and the youth with a sling, the man after God's own heart, and whose heart composed and sung the Psalms and Songs of Israel, Psalm 8 my favourite, written I believe to commemorate the defeat of Goliath.Psalm 91 is my favorite.
On another note, I had a pleasant morning yesterday as we celebrated my two daughters birthdays, both born on the same calendar day, now 50 and 55 years old. We also had one son-in-law and their 27 y.o. son, and a 14 y.o. daughter of my youngest son. My two sons and families could not attend.It's good to be able to celebrate your children's birthdays. We weren't allowed to do that as JWs. So I had to make up for lost time and try to make their birthdays special for them.
Tonight I listened to a thorough talk on Isaiah 58, by a speaker who gave 90 out of the 100 Bible Classes on Isaiah about 30 years ago in South Australia, giving about ten talks per year over ten years. Isaiah is one of my favourite Bible books. This was in preparation for tomorrow night's Bible Class when our most senior expositor is going to speak on Isaiah 58. He also has given talks on Isaiah over a number of years and he has given one chapter per class on each occasion, and we are now up to Isaiah 58. I have mp3 copies of all these talks from both speakers. Both speakers prepare their talks by their own private study and this is different to my assessment of the JW method. This chapter is very searching as far as our personal spiritual life, as there is some strong rebuke in Isaiah 57 and 58, but there is some extremely encouraging portions in both chapters as well. I had previously taken a few notes written up in my Bible program, and have added a few more tonight and will have both of these with me tomorrow night.What do you find most encouraging in those chapters?
I appreciate your taking the time to listen to those videos. I hope those videos offered some insight into what many JWs are dealing with in that organization.Thank you for your response. Yes, I think that we are all going to be surprised when Jesus returns and sorts the faithful from the rest of the religious world. I am fascinated by the prophecy about the birth of Jesus in Micah 5, and this gives a hint at a humble birth. The outworking of this was remarkable, with the need to go to Bethlehem to be registered, and then the birth in the stables. I like the fact that the first notice of this is from the Wise Men that traveled from the East, and their request to Herod and the Pharisees and Sadducees as to where was the King of the Jews born, and the resulting trepidation of the political and religious leaders, as both classes were embedded in seats of power in Jerusalem, but Jesus was born in Bethlehem, associated with the Shepherd King and the youth with a sling, the man after God's own heart, and whose heart composed and sung the Psalms and Songs of Israel, Psalm 8 my favourite, written I believe to commemorate the defeat of Goliath.
Jesus has compassion for people who are mistreated by their religious leaders and who are like sheep without a shepherd no matter what religion that might be. I believe we should too.
Greetings again Heartsong,Having the same faith and many shared friends has also helped over the years. Joyce was reasonably patient with my mental problems and was the stability for the children's sake in this period of six months and partial before and after this period.My husband was patient with me as well when I had nightmares and flashbacks. He knew my background because we had talked about it. My husband had health problems later on and I took care of him. So we took care of each other that way.
Yes, and we may have to endure many trials and possibly more trouble as the Time of the End reaches its climax.I don't doubt that. I don't see things getting better.
I eventually finished The Apostasy Trials 3-6 last night. I preferred my four Fellowship talks and finished these last week and also considered a few other talks in between, mainly because I found the Apostasy Trials depressing. The recordings were also very poor and I would have abandoned listening apart from his help by adding some text on the RHS. In a way these recordings add some information to warn anyone against joining the JWs, in addition to my four opening posts summarising some of the erroneous JW teachings from their Book.I appreciate your taking the time to listen to those videos. I hope those videos offered some insight into what many JWs are dealing with in that organization. Because many things he said are the same things that many other JWs have questions about but aren't allowed to ask or even talk about with other JWs. That is unacceptable to me. That is too much control. In fact, as was said in one of those videos, a JW who even thinks about questioning or disagreeing with the Governing Body is considered an apostate. They aren't even allowed to have private thoughts without that hanging over their heads.
A few of the aspects from the Trial, firstly was his objection to the all powerful Governing Body, some of the changes that have happened over the years, the problems associated with 1975, and the JW problem with their popular teaching concerning many thousands will never die and their need to invent parallel generations. He highlighted the evil JW practice of shunning.Yes, he did and good for him.
What is not clear is whether his marriage breakdown was as a result of his drifting from the JWs, or his drifting occurred at a significant time after his marriage breakdown. There seems to be many anti-JW videos on the Internet, some from those who have left the JWs. Some of these have abandoned faith in God and the Bible altogether.It sounds like it was a result of his drifting from the JWs organization because his wife and father-in-law had a major problem with that. That is the way it usually happens and family members turn against the person. He said his wife told him he left God. The problem is too many JWs equate that organization under the leadership of the Governing Body as God. He didn't leave God, he left that organization.
55 years. Obviously, you and your wife took your marriage vows seriously. That's good to hear especially these days.Having the same faith and many shared friends has also helped over the years. Joyce was reasonably patient with my mental problems and was the stability for the children's sake in this period of six months and partial before and after this period.
Yes, it's important to hold fast to what we believe and to follow Jesus' example in order to endure trials. To have faith and trust in God no matter what happens.Yes, and we may have to endure many trials and possibly more trouble as the Time of the End reaches its climax.
Greetings again Heartsong,I was happy that both my sons remembered Joyce yesterday. We have been married for 55 years, with a few problems over the years, but Joyce has been a great blessing in my life.My oldest son was out of town over the weekend but he came to visit this evening. I really felt the absence of my youngest son and my daughter today.
We had a fairly hectic weekend considering John 13-16. I was a bit stressed being in control of the camera and video. I was encouraged by Jesus speaking about the True Vine, and the word that reoccurs is "Abide" and we need to "Abide" in Jesus. Jesus and the Apostles were about to experience the worst period in their lives, with the trial and crucifixion of Jesus. Thus the need for Christ to continually encourage them to hold fast to what they had believed and espoused in the coming trials. We could consider Peter and his threefold denial, then his bitter weeping, and then Jesus' meeting of him and then restoration of him and his threefold affirmation.Yes, it's important to hold fast to what we believe and to follow Jesus' example in order to endure trials. To have faith and trust in God no matter what happens.
You seem to allude to mental health problems. I have had two mental breakdowns, but was treated by the mental hospital. But one of the brethren who had his own previous problems was helpful. My recovery after the second occasion was slow, but steady.Yes, I was diagnosed with PTSD years ago as a result of traumatic events that happened to me. Faith and trust in God and prayer has helped me more than anything else.
He told me that he couldn't have asked for a better wife and mother for our children. I can't put into words what that meant to me. He knew me very well after over twenty five years of marriage.I was happy that both my sons remembered Joyce yesterday. We have been married for 55 years, with a few problems over the years, but Joyce has been a great blessing in my life. We had a fairly hectic weekend considering John 13-16. I was a bit stressed being in control of the camera and video. I was encouraged by Jesus speaking about the True Vine, and the word that reoccurs is "Abide" and we need to "Abide" in Jesus. Jesus and the Apostles were about to experience the worst period in their lives, with the trial and crucifixion of Jesus. Thus the need for Christ to continually encourage them to hold fast to what they had believed and espoused in the coming trials. We could consider Peter and his threefold denial, then his bitter weeping, and then Jesus' meeting of him and then restoration of him and his threefold affirmation.
Like one size fits all. The fact is the elders are not trained and qualified to deal with matters that are best handled by mental health professionals. Even if they think they are.You seem to allude to mental health problems. I have had two mental breakdowns, but was treated by the mental hospital. But one of the brethren who had his own previous problems was helpful. My recovery after the second occasion was slow, but steady. I label my first encounter in hospital my Psalm 34 experience.
Heartsong - ^They do take it too far.
I think they take this "worldly" stuff too far.
I mean, do they make their own clothes, grow their own food, make toothpaste, etc.? I mean, all that stuff's in and from the world and useful. Most of the stuff they have is produced by the "world". Ya, when their heating unit breaks down or they have to get teeth fixed, who they gonna call? Ghostbusters? They couldn't get by without the "world" since they'd still be living in caves. Everything under reason.They would probably say, "yeah but that's different". Something I noticed when I was a JW, these same people who scream the loudest about "worldly" this and "worldly" that sure do like living large with "worldly" riches.
I'd tell them it's because I had some faith at least that I was looking for some good to happen elsewhere since I wasn't getting it by the faith of the elders here. That'd probably p them off no end.If I said that they would have me in a Judicial Committee meeting real quick.
Well, that's no one's business unless one makes it theirs for some reason. Elders? What powers of healing do they have? Seems like none if they burden a sufferer with fault as their idea of help. Perhaps they do that to assuage their feelings of uselessness this way themselves. So they get some of this "power" by rules and regs instead.It's like they have to stick to the script given by the Governing Body. Like one size fits all. The fact is the elders are not trained and qualified to deal with matters that are best handled by mental health professionals. Even if they think they are.
It is well understood within the JW organization that anyone outside that organization is "worldly" and a bad influence on one's thinking and behavior and that includes mental health professionals. Because that is what the Governing Body says. They say it's a personal decision to receive that kind of help but it's also understood that if a person just has "enough faith" that they won't need to seek that kind of help.
I found out the hard way when I needed help and I called an elder first asking for help because that's what we were told to do. That was a big mistake. He told me it was my fault that I was having those kind of problems. He basically told me that I was spiritually weak and didn't have enough faith. He did not help me and did not recommend that I see a mental health professional. That is not encouraged. But I did decide to see a mental health professional and I did not let that be known. Only my family knew.
Perhaps the elder did you a favour as it burst the bubble and now you can sincerely seek the fellowship of God the Father and His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ in the correct understanding and practise.That's all I really want to do without people putting stumbling blocks, walls, endless rules, and high control methods in the way. Behavior control, information control, thought control and emotional control.
Kind regards
Trevor
Heartsong - ^It is well understood within the JW organization that anyone outside that organization is "worldly" and a bad influence on one's thinking and behavior and that includes mental health professionals. Because that is what the Governing Body says. They say it's a personal decision to receive that kind of help but it's also understood that if a person just has "enough faith" that they won't need to seek that kind of help.
That'd be on him if so since he was her husband, but I don't know if that group allows outside counseling or if everything's "in-house" hush-hush to look like everything's peachy from the outside.
I'd think that if things were as bad as to have her do what she did, she'd have said something to somebody, anybody, within or without. I mean, you had offered to lend an ear. Without the facts, it's hard to say.
para . . . .
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