Post by: Kerry on June 15, 2023, 11:43:07 am
I am behind again in my responses. I was up most of the night getting ready for a doctor's appointment.
By the way, I am glad you and others posted. Some of the best threads are those which take interesting turns. Not much more can be said about the donkey anyway. I do want to discuss more things; but for now, I'm thinking of Samuel who heard a voice and thought it was Eli talking. Luckily for Samuel, Eli figured it out and told him how to handle the situation. "Audible voices" can be confusing at times.
I Samuel 3:7 Now Samuel did not yet know the Lord, neither was the word of the Lord yet revealed unto him.
Post by: Heartsong on June 15, 2023, 12:59:35 am
. That was my chuckle for the morning Heartsong “ What colour was the donkey” sounds just like Helen 😇🤣👍👍.I guess Helen wants to know the details about things too. :)
Post by: Helen on June 14, 2023, 12:25:58 pm
This may be worth discussing more, Helen, since at times God may have to use human words to get through. I suppose it may depend on whether the person has developed spiritual ears yet. For sure however, an authentic message from God always leaves us feeling peaceful. That is for sure. We know God is still on His throne and everything will turn out right.
I may have given the wrong impression in how I wrote it…I didn’t mean that God never uses words …
Dave once received ‘a word of wisdom ‘ via a 11 year old child . ( not that the child knew that she was being used as God mouth piece.)
God speaks in many different ways . Once I was praying about a certain thing that I thought should happen - and God spoke to me as clearly as if it was audible , which it wasn’t . First I ‘heard’ Him laugh , He laughed and said , “There is one God , and that is not you!”
At the time it made me laugh too. He’d got me!
I didn’t know that He could laugh .
It was a precious experience that I have never forgotten.
We so often imagine that he can get angry or cross with us for ‘getting it wrong’….the church teaches us that . Now I see that He sees our weaknesses and foolishness, and laughs in a fatherly way. He isn’t always angry …we ( the church ) have done him a great disfavour in how he is represented to the world ….
I did once hear the audible voice of the lord …once heard never forgotten .
Yet probably the most usual way of hearing Him speak is through a Bible verse .
Not just any old Bible verse , that is not Him “speaking” that is the written word but black letters on white paper unless God through His Holy Spirit breaths His life and meaning into the words …then it is a WOW …we are left in no doubt at all , and that arrow hit its mark and God has spoken personally , right to us . Like a light bulb lighting up the verses .
I have more spiritual direction that way more than any other way in my 81yrs.
It’s almost mind blowing to know that the great creator actually desires to speak individually to one of His flock .
PS
You can move this if you want to…it’s your thread , but maybe somewhat off on another tangent .
Post by: Dave on June 14, 2023, 10:07:59 am
Post by: TrevorL on June 14, 2023, 06:03:33 am
Do you mean the four cherubim?You have given a very long post, and I will mainly state my perspective, but could improve or elaborate on most items.
The four living creatures of Revelation 4 are similar to both the Cherubim of Ezekiel 1 and the Seraphim of Isaiah 6, and I consider all three of these categories are symbolic. There is also the Lamb, and horses and various beasts in the Book of Revelation, but again symbolic language depicting other things.
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I wasn't sleeping. Did you miss where I wrote that I woke up? Or did you think I dreamed that I woke up?Well, I do not know what to make of what you say. Joyce suggested day dreaming, and I thought of hallucination but here is what you stated in your OP:
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Now for the donkey when it showed up at the birth of the baby. Shortly after the baby was born, I woke up knowing there was an angel in the house. It woke me up trying to read my mind while I was asleep. I woke up and asked what it wanted to know. It wanted to know about the baby. I also know how to open my mind to let angels read it easily, so I did that.No matter how real you may consider this experience, I find it extremely difficult to understand or agree that it happened. Perhaps the only similar concept is Isaiah's interaction with the Seraphim in Isaiah 6, but even here I consider this a vision, not real.
It turned out the angel showed up to check on the baby. Had it be born as planned? Was everything okay? I never knew there were angels who did this; and I pressed the angel. Now I wanted to know something. Who was this angel really? I wanted to see him.
It turned out it was the donkey which helped make room for Jesus when he was born. People may debate whether the souls of animals can be immortalized; but I was seeing one which had become immortal was still serving Jesus. Yes, even animals can have their rewards.
It also taught me how angels like to do their good deeds secretly, not wanting to take credit. That donkey loved Jesus and wouldn't have told me he was even around if I had kept sleeping and he could have read my mind. Oh what love that donkey had for all babies along with his love for Jesus.
…. I wish you all could have met that donkey.
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I do not believe in immortal souls, especially immortal donkey souls.
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As a general rule, neither do I.Thus I cannot accept your claim of a donkey angel.
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Psalm 49:6-12 (KJV)To my assessment it states that man is mortal and the animals are definitely mortal and cease to exist when they die.
That tells us our money and property cannot buy us immortality. It is teaching what Jesus did about how hard it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom.
Perhaps the last line is worth more reflection. Man without understanding is like the beasts that perish. They may have honor and so on, but without the right understanding, they are no better than the beasts.
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Solomon said something similar while using the word "spirit":I do not accept that our being and consciousness continues as our spirit after death. When we die our thoughts cease.
Ecclesiastes 3:18-21
Who knows? Do you? Have you ever observed where the spirit of a man or a beast goes after death? Or are you using your imagination to try to figure things out from reading the Bible?
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You focus too much on one state of being and on a few passages from the Bible. Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.My conclusions are based on all of the Scripture teaching.
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Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;I take these literally happened.
This did not happen physically. I think history would have recorded it, but no historian mentions it. Matthew is describing the rending of a spiritual veil. Historians also do not take note of "darkness" at the time as mentioned in verse 45. That was spiritual darkness, a profound darkness that occurred when the "lights" in Heaven were being changed.
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We read that saints who had been "sleeping" came out of their graves when Jesus was crucified and resurrected. The passage is difficult to understand since many want to read it literally in physical terms.Perhaps we need to accept what it states first. I compare it to the resurrection of Lazarus.
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
What came out of the graves? Physical bodies or spiritual bodies? Again, no historian mentions this. I think Josephus who loved the extraordinary would have reported it if he had heard about it. I believe their spiritual bodies came out and they appeared to men and women with eyes to see and ears to hear with. People without spiritual eyes and ears would have seen and heard nothing. So those saints no longer slept; but they were still missing something. The "dust" which had held them was not changed.
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With Jesus, the very dust was changed -- completely. Please do not think God needs the actual physical atoms of the physical body to do this. He can use any atoms He wishes. The Dark Side cannot defeat God's plan by beheading, mangling, burning, or dismembering or feeding the saints to the beasts. Not permanently anyway. Look at how much blood Jesus lost on the cross. If the life is in the blood, how did he return to life? I do believe however that the Dark Side can slow down and impair the entry of saints by using violence against them. They can fall into an unconscious state called sleeping in the Bible.I believe that the body of Jesus was raised from the dead, and then God changed his body, not replaced it, and changed him from mortality to immortality. He was still a man with with a glorified body, not now dependent on air and blood, but sustained by God's Spirit.
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I think too that some things are relative. The events mentioned in Revelation cannot all be pinned down to single points in time. Some people can hear the Last Trump even before their physical bodies die -- and they exit the world of time and enter eternity -- while their physical bodies do not.I believe in the resurrection when Jesus returns.
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How seriously do we take Paul's words about this? Do you believe in the efficacy of baptizing for the dead?You are sounding like a Mormon.
1 Corinthians 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
Can dead people receive the Holy Spirit the way live people can? Why is it that God requires that baptism by water be performed by other humans?
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Paul continues a few verses later:He is speaking on behalf of those who will be alive when Jesus returns.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
Who is "we" in that passage? Did everyone at Corinth reading his words "sleep"?
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
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Paul while teaching this perfecting is possible while the saint is still alive in the physical body said he had not yet "attained" it.No, it is a goal to be aimed at.
Philippians 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Did anyone attain it?
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I say John did, and he describes it rather well.No, John was given a vision of future things.
Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
He was on the earth and heard a voice like a trumpet.
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
I'd say his spirit left his physical body; and the body fell down as if it was dead since the animating spirit left it.
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Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.No, he was involved in the vision, similar to Isaiah in Isaiah 6.
He is still on the earth when receives the messages about the Seven Churches. Then he hears a trumpet again and is caught up to Heaven.
Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. 2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
John doesn't say it outright; but he had been changed.
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1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.These will occur when Jesus returns.
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
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John's physical body did die later; but he had already been caught up by Jesus, and mortal had put on immortality. We can also say John believed in Jesus and never died, never slept.This is the same two categories, those that have died, and those who are living when Jesus returns.
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
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Daniel 12:2-3 (KJV): 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.The vast majority of men have ceased to exist. The faithful are said to be asleep, because Christ will wake them at his return.
Notice it does not say that all must sleep.
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2 Timothy 4:1,6-8 (KJV): 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.I believe he is soon to return.
You seem to want to pinpoint the appearing of Jesus to one point in time. I think he is free to be coming throughout history as suits his purposes.
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Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.I believe in the one event
Must this always be in the future, or may some be like John having Jesus appear to them the second time; and then they die in a certain way and are reborn as children of God?
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People talk a lot about being born again, but many couldn't explain this passage about it.Interesting but I consider John 3 to be speaking of baptism in water and then later the change to immortality.
John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
I say if someone has never moved like the wind, he or she should still be seeking being born of the Spirit. Forget the human interpretations about "born again" taught by some ministers. The person who has moved like the wind and seen and heard things with spiritual eyes and ears is not spiritually blind or deaf. When he reads the Bible, sometimes he even recognizes some things being described. The Bible at times is like a roadmap describing terrain. It is not the terrain. When you go traveling, you realize things are not always the way you imagined in your mind's eye. Maybe you saw there was a bridge on the map and visualized it poorly; but when you reach that bridge in fact, you see it really is a bridge and that the map was correct even if you imagined the bridge differently.
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I think perhaps we should discuss how and why God does not send dreams and visions to everyone as well as how He tries to make sure prophets being entrusted with messages for others can hear and see fairly accurately. Complete perfection is not needed, but God does not send prophecies unless He knows the prophet will get enough of the message right that it succeeds.There are many false prophets.
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Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.One of my favourite passages.
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Perhaps too we should discuss false prophecies, dreams and visions, and how people can get fooled by them.We have more than enough already.
Kind regards
Trevor
Post by: Kerry on June 14, 2023, 05:14:19 am
How wonderful, Heartsong. It sounds to me as if you made a connection with crickets as a child that stayed with you. Of course ultimately, I don't know but perhaps some day you will.
I've wondered about the cricket and why I was drawn to it. The thing that comes to mind is that when I was very young my mother would rock me to sleep then put me on the bed and the crickets would be chirping outside and that sound would help me sleep. If the sound stopped I would wake up. I had a conversation with that cricket. I asked how it made that sound and it showed me.
Now something about butterflies and how they boggled my mind once. I was driving, delivering papers one fine day; and I pulled up to a box to put a paper in it. I cannot really remember how "I" got in with the flock of butterflies; but all of a sudden, I was experiencing reality the way they were. Maybe I had my mind too open or something. I knew I was receiving thoughts from them; but none of it made sense. I couldn't make heads or tails of anything. The way they were thinking was not the way I thought. I read later that a group of insects often operate with one mind. I believe that now. You can also see how a group of insects can move together. I doubt there is a "leader butterfly" the way packs of animals sometimes get led by one animal. I think one mind or spirit or soul (I don't know which) can communicate with several insects at once.
Later too I realized this is how the Mind of Christ seems to work. We may still have our own minds; but we can also receive thoughts from the Mind of Christ. This is wonderful for promoting harmony and resolving conflicts. Sometimes too, we may receive instructions about things we need to do. From our human viewpoint, it might not make sense. I've also noticed that such ideas are not the result of my sitting and thinking about things -- such ideas simply appear and that lets me know they aren't my own ideas.
I was told one day that someone I knew would soon need a place to live. (Did I tell this story before?) It seemed odd to me and hard to believe since I thought he and his girlfriend were happy together. But the thought came, and I obeyed and went and told him I believed he might need a place to live soon; and if he did, he could move in with me. He smiled and said he didn't think so. Then I told him maybe, maybe not; but if it turned out that way to remember he could move in with me and I gave him my phone number since he didn't have it. I can't remember exactly how long it was; but the phone call came and he moved in with me and lived there several months before he found another place. I still do not fully understand what the purpose was. Sure it prevented him from continuing to live in conflict or winding up homeless; but I believe there may have been more to it which I still don't grasp.
Post by: Kerry on June 14, 2023, 02:50:34 am
Greetings Kerry and Helen,The animals in the Book of Revelation are symbolic.Do you mean the four cherubim?
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Dreams can seem to be powerful at times, but we need to distinguish between reality and imagination.I wasn't sleeping. Did you miss where I wrote that I woke up? Or did you think I dreamed that I woke up?
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I do not believe in immortal souls, especially immortal donkey souls.As a general rule, neither do I.
Psalm 49:6-12 (KJV) 6 They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches; 7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him: 8 (For the redemption of their soul is precious, and it ceaseth for ever:) 9 That he should still live for ever, and not see corruption. 10 For he seeth that wise men die, likewise the fool and the brutish person perish, and leave their wealth to others. 11 Their inward thought is, that their houses shall continue for ever, and their dwelling places to all generations; they call their lands after their own names. 12 Nevertheless man being in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish. 13 This their way is their folly: yet their posterity approve their sayings. Selah. 14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling. 15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah. 16 Be not thou afraid when one is made rich, when the glory of his house is increased; 17 For when he dieth he shall carry nothing away: his glory shall not descend after him. 18 Though while he lived he blessed his soul: and men will praise thee, when thou doest well to thyself. 19 He shall go to the generation of his fathers; they shall never see light. 20 Man that is in honour, and understandeth not, is like the beasts that perish.
That tells us our money and property cannot buy us immortality. It is teaching what Jesus did about how hard it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom.
Perhaps the last line is worth more reflection. Man without understanding is like the beasts that perish. They may have honor and so on, but without the right understanding, they are no better than the beasts. Solomon said something similar while using the word "spirit":
Ecclesiastes 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
Who knows? Do you? Have you ever observed where the spirit of a man or a beast goes after death? Or are you using your imagination to try to figure things out from reading the Bible?
Who knows? Ah, the person who knows this is alive already. The person who does not know this is already dead even if physical body is alive and breathing. Jesus said let the dead bury the dead. What did that mean to you?
Solomon then hints at "who knows".
22 Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works; for that is his portion: for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him?
The person who has the the Breath of God and has been filled by the Holy Spirit likes to do good works, not for the hope of future rewards but because he or she enjoys doing them. We are here living on the earth, able to do either good or evil. What we do matters. The person who knows this rejoices when the opportunity comes along to do something kind and loving. That Spirit came from God and God is Love. The Psalm you quoted says "understanding" -- and that the person without that understanding is like the beasts.
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The Bible teaches that only some will be raised from the dead at the return of Jesus, some to everlasting life and some rejected at the Judgement Seat:You focus too much on one state of being and on a few passages from the Bible. Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.
We read that saints who had been "sleeping" came out of their graves when Jesus was crucified and resurrected. The passage is difficult to understand since many want to read it literally in physical terms.
Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
This did not happen physically. I think history would have recorded it, but no historian mentions it. Matthew is describing the rending of a spiritual veil. Historians also do not take note of "darkness" at the time as mentioned in verse 45. That was spiritual darkness, a profound darkness that occurred when the "lights" in Heaven were being changed.
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
What came out of the graves? Physical bodies or spiritual bodies? Again, no historian mentions this. I think Josephus who loved the extraordinary would have reported it if he had heard about it. I believe their spiritual bodies came out and they appeared to men and women with eyes to see and ears to hear with. People without spiritual eyes and ears would have seen and heard nothing. So those saints no longer slept; but they were still missing something. The "dust" which had held them was not changed.
With Jesus, the very dust was changed -- completely. Please do not think God needs the actual physical atoms of the physical body to do this. He can use any atoms He wishes. The Dark Side cannot defeat God's plan by beheading, mangling, burning, or dismembering or feeding the saints to the beasts. Not permanently anyway. Look at how much blood Jesus lost on the cross. If the life is in the blood, how did he return to life? I do believe however that the Dark Side can slow down and impair the entry of saints by using violence against them. They can fall into an unconscious state called sleeping in the Bible.
I think too that some things are relative. The events mentioned in Revelation cannot all be pinned down to single points in time. Some people can hear the Last Trump even before their physical bodies die -- and they exit the world of time and enter eternity -- while their physical bodies do not.
How seriously do we take Paul's words about this? Do you believe in the efficacy of baptizing for the dead?
1 Corinthians 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
Can dead people receive the Holy Spirit the way live people can? Why is it that God requires that baptism by water be performed by other humans? Paul continues a few verses later:
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
Who is "we" in that passage? Did everyone at Corinth reading his words "sleep"?
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Paul while teaching this perfecting is possible while the saint is still alive in the physical body said he had not yet "attained" it.
Philippians 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Did anyone attain it? I say John did, and he describes it rather well.
Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
He was on the earth and heard a voice like a trumpet.
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
I'd say his spirit left his physical body; and the body fell down as if it was dead since the animating spirit left it.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
He is still on the earth when receives the messages about the Seven Churches. Then he hears a trumpet again and is caught up to Heaven.
Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
John doesn't say it outright; but he had been changed.
1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Now what Jesus told Peter about John makes sense:
John 21:20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?
24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.
John's physical body did die later; but he had already been caught up by Jesus, and mortal had put on immortality. We can also say John believed in Jesus and never died, never slept.
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Daniel 12:2-3 (KJV): 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
Notice it does not say that all must sleep.
2 Timothy 4:1,6-8 (KJV): 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
You seem to want to pinpoint the appearing of Jesus to one point in time. I think he is free to be coming throughout history as suits his purposes.
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Must this always be in the future, or may some be like John having Jesus appear to them the second time; and then they die in a certain way and are reborn as children of God? People talk a lot about being born again, but many couldn't explain this passage about it.
John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
I say if someone has never moved like the wind, he or she should still be seeking being born of the Spirit. Forget the human interpretations about "born again" taught by some ministers. The person who has moved like the wind and seen and heard things with spiritual eyes and ears is not spiritually blind or deaf. When he reads the Bible, sometimes he even recognizes some things being described. The Bible at times is like a roadmap describing terrain. It is not the terrain. When you go traveling, you realize things are not always the way you imagined in your mind's eye. Maybe you saw there was a bridge on the map and visualized it poorly; but when you reach that bridge in fact, you see it really is a bridge and that the map was correct even if you imagined the bridge differently.
I think perhaps we should discuss how and why God does not send dreams and visions to everyone as well as how He tries to make sure prophets being entrusted with messages for others can hear and see fairly accurately. Complete perfection is not needed, but God does not send prophecies unless He knows the prophet will get enough of the message right that it succeeds.
Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Perhaps too we should discuss false prophecies, dreams and visions, and how people can get fooled by them.
Post by: Heartsong on June 13, 2023, 01:44:57 pm
I hope you don't delete it; but if you want to, I can delete my quoting you too.Okay then I won't delete it
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Some matters, especially those involving missions, might be better kept quiet. You do what is needed, keep quiet about it and don't try to get attention or credit.You're right.
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You asked very good questions; and I think questions like these need more discussion. I'll have more to say later, but the waterfall is a very good sign as is the feeling of floating. It tells me you were in "upper waters" or "air" where Paradise is. Hang onto that feeling of being connected -- for where your heart is, there you will be also.I'll never forget that feeling of connection. Yes, I was up in the air.
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There is also some symbolism involved since "air" is being mixed with the "water" in the waterfall. It is living waters, just the way liquid blood contains the gas oxygen. The region of "lower waters" has murky water and tends to be dark, and that is where some souls wind up after their physical bodies die. Not very good. This is what is called "the sea" in Revelation where all the yucky things come up out of, and where some souls can become trapped.That was a very good place and so beautiful.
I've wondered about the cricket and why I was drawn to it. The thing that comes to mind is that when I was very young my mother would rock me to sleep then put me on the bed and the crickets would be chirping outside and that sound would help me sleep. If the sound stopped I would wake up. I had a conversation with that cricket. I asked how it made that sound and it showed me.
Post by: Heartsong on June 13, 2023, 01:10:08 pm
I wish I did have those kind of dreams. That would be a blessing and I might be able to get a good night's sleep.
No don’t delete it…we’ve all had strange dreams or visions that we don’t understand , or the ‘message’ takes a while to clarify.
I also have been to Paradise in a dream…so very beautiful …I sat with my mother , with our feet in the River .
We didn’t speak , we didn’t need to . I used to have many dreams and visions …there are dreams , and then there are God dreams , and we have no doubt which is which.
God communicates without words , there is a ‘knowing’, and a peace . Whenever I found myself saying -“ Was that from the Lord”…I then throw it out.
My rule of thumb has always been , “when in doubt - don’t. “.
My sheep know My voice. It alone brings peace .
Post by: Kerry on June 13, 2023, 12:45:57 pm
I am very happy at the turn this thread has taken. I am glad now I posted about the donkey. We see in the Old Testament where some prophets received messages they didn't understand. They didn't need to. God could use them to affect the future without their understanding every little thing.
No don’t delete it…we’ve all had strange dreams or visions that we don’t understand , or the ‘message’ takes a while to clarify.
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I also have been to Paradise in a dream…so very beautiful …I sat with my mother , with our feet in the River .Am I right in guessing your mother looked younger than when she passed? I me an aunt once, and she looked about thirty. One thing I find interesting is that if a dream comes from Heaven, the person wakes up wide awake without the least drowsiness. It's rather like going through a door from one room to another. Then there are dreams where you know you're dreaming when it happens. You're alert even aware that your physical body is asleep.
We didn’t speak , we didn’t need to . I used to have many dreams and visions …there are dreams , and then there are God dreams , and we have no doubt which is which.
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God communicates without words , there is a ‘knowing’, and a peace . Whenever I found myself saying -“ Was that from the Lord”…I then throw it out.
My rule of thumb has always been , “when in doubt - don’t. “.
My sheep know My voice. It alone brings peace .
This may be worth discussing more, Helen, since at times God may have to use human words to get through. I suppose it may depend on whether the person has developed spiritual ears yet. For sure however, an authentic message from God always leaves us feeling peaceful. That is for sure. We know God is still on His throne and everything will turn out right.
Post by: Kerry on June 13, 2023, 12:09:09 pm
Can visions be confused with what someone might think is a memory or remembering a dream? There have been times that I have seen things in my mind's eye, if that makes sense, and I say, where did that come from? I also wonder, am I remembering a dream or was that a memory or something else? But it sure was nice and gave me a good feeling and it was a good place. A beautiful place. But the thing is I never forget what I saw.I hope you don't delete it; but if you want to, I can delete my quoting you too. Some matters, especially those involving missions, might be better kept quiet. You do what is needed, keep quiet about it and don't try to get attention or credit. You asked very good questions; and I think questions like these need more discussion. I'll have more to say later, but the waterfall is a very good sign as is the feeling of floating. It tells me you were in "upper waters" or "air" where Paradise is. Hang onto that feeling of being connected -- for where your heart is, there you will be also. There is also some symbolism involved since "air" is being mixed with the "water" in the waterfall. It is living waters, just the way liquid blood contains the gas oxygen. The region of "lower waters" has murky water and tends to be dark, and that is where some souls wind up after their physical bodies die. Not very good. This is what is called "the sea" in Revelation where all the yucky things come up out of, and where some souls can become trapped.
Okay, I'm going to mention something else. I was on a bed, maybe a hospital bed. There were three or four I'll say people but only I could see them and they were standing at the foot of the bed and I was asked, are you ready to go? I said, what about my children? One of them said, they will come later. I felt sadness that I was leaving my children and reluctantly went with them.
Another time and I think I've mentioned this before. I was up above this huge waterfall and it was surrounded by what looked like a paradise. It felt like I was floating or flying up above that waterfall. But I also went down because I was drawn to something. A little cricket of all things. .....Everything there was so closely connected in every way even the water falling from the waterfall. There was like communication between everything including with me. That was a beautiful place and I didn't want to leave but the time came when I had to leave.
There is one more where I volunteered for a certain mission. I won't go into that. I've probably said too much already that is unbelievable. I might have to delete this....
Yes, I know what you mean.
Post by: Helen on June 13, 2023, 12:01:56 pm
Can visions be confused with what someone might think is a memory or remembering a dream? There have been times that I have seen things in my mind's eye, if that makes sense, and I say, where did that come from? I also wonder, am I remembering a dream or was that a memory or something else? But it sure was nice and gave me a good feeling and it was a good place. A beautiful place. But the thing is I never forget what I saw.
Okay, I'm going to mention something else. I was on a bed, maybe a hospital bed. There were three or four I'll say people but only I could see them and they were standing at the foot of the bed and I was asked, are you ready to go? I said, what about my children? One of them said, they will come later. I felt sadness that I was leaving my children and reluctantly went with them.
Another time and I think I've mentioned this before. I was up above this huge waterfall and it was surrounded by what looked like a paradise. It felt like I was floating or flying up above that waterfall. But I also went down because I was drawn to something. A little cricket of all things. .....Everything there was so closely connected in every way even the water falling from the waterfall. There was like communication between everything including with me. That was a beautiful place and I didn't want to leave but the time came when I had to leave.
There is one more where I volunteered for a certain mission. I won't go into that. I've probably said too much already that is unbelievable. I might have to delete this....
Yes, I know what you mean.
No don’t delete it…we’ve all had strange dreams or visions that we don’t understand , or the ‘message’ takes a while to clarify.
I also have been to Paradise in a dream…so very beautiful …I sat with my mother , with our feet in the River .
We didn’t speak , we didn’t need to . I used to have many dreams and visions …there are dreams , and then there are God dreams , and we have no doubt which is which.
God communicates without words , there is a ‘knowing’, and a peace . Whenever I found myself saying -“ Was that from the Lord”…I then throw it out.
My rule of thumb has always been , “when in doubt - don’t. “.
My sheep know My voice. It alone brings peace .
Post by: Heartsong on June 13, 2023, 11:47:43 am
No, I love that question since it prompts me to correct or to clarify something I wrote. I wrote that I saw it, but what I saw was "as through a glass darkly." I did not get a really good picture. Some visions I was supposed to get were sharp and in brilliant colors; and often the colors tell me something about where I am. Visiting dark places tells me I'm not in the best of places. While I am sure I was talking to the donkey, I am less sure about the visualization. But it was a lovely warm gray.Can visions be confused with what someone might think is a memory or remembering a dream? There have been times that I have seen things in my mind's eye, if that makes sense, and I say, where did that come from? I also wonder, am I remembering a dream or was that a memory or something else? But it sure was nice and gave me a good feeling and it was a good place. A beautiful place. But the thing is I never forget what I saw.
Okay, I'm going to mention something else. I was on a bed, maybe a hospital bed. There were three or four I'll say people but only I could see them and they were standing at the foot of the bed and I was asked, are you ready to go? I said, what about my children? One of them said, they will come later. I felt sadness that I was leaving my children and reluctantly went with them.
Another time and I think I've mentioned this before. I was up above this huge waterfall and it was surrounded by what looked like a paradise. It felt like I was floating or flying up above that waterfall. But I also went down because I was drawn to something. A little cricket of all things. .....Everything there was so closely connected in every way even the water falling from the waterfall. There was like communication between everything including with me. That was a beautiful place and I didn't want to leave but the time came when I had to leave.
There is one more where I volunteered for a certain mission. I won't go into that. I've probably said too much already that is unbelievable. I might have to delete this....
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It is like Heaven is opening a door for mw. I am grateful to God and to her for what she did to make the world a better place.Yes, I know what you mean.
Post by: Kerry on June 13, 2023, 10:55:11 am
Maybe a stupid question but what color was the donkey? I mean donkeys are different colors aren't they.No, I love that question since it prompts me to correct or to clarify something I wrote. I wrote that I saw it, but what I saw was "as through a glass darkly." I did not get a really good picture. Some visions I was supposed to get were sharp and in brilliant colors; and often the colors tell me something about where I am. Visiting dark places tells me I'm not in the best of places. While I am sure I was talking to the donkey, I am less sure about the visualization. But it was a lovely warm gray.
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She sings that song with so much feeling and emotion.It is like Heaven is opening a door for mw. I am grateful to God and to her for what she did to make the world a better place.
Post by: Heartsong on June 13, 2023, 10:31:56 am
I am a little shy about sharing this story; but I will since I think it shows how great and wonderful the Love of God is. It's so hard to believe, I don't mind in the least if people think I'm a bit nuts.Maybe a stupid question but what color was the donkey? I mean donkeys are different colors aren't they.
I've talked before about my friend who was in prison when his girlfriend found out she was pregnant. I told him she could come visit me, and she did. She was very honest about the situation and told me she was thinking of having an abortion. I thought her a little selfish when she said she couldn't bear thinking of someone else adopting it -- if she couldn't have it, she thought it better to abort it. Behind that "selfishness" however, I could see she wanted the child, perhaps desperately.
I told her not to worry, that she could move in with me and her boyfriend could move in when he got out of prison. She did that, and she had a baby girl. I was quite happy at how that worked out. I'll get to how the donkey comes into the picture later, but let me skip forward now. He did move in when he got out; but it didn't last long. He moved out; and then she moved out. I have not seen her or the baby since; but I did run into him a few months ago and he gave me money, saying he owed it to me. I didn't remember that! But how wonderful that he remembered it and wanted to settle the debt. I had been worrying that maybe he had to pay child support and might be angry with me over talking her out of the abortion; but he wasn't.
Now for the donkey when it showed up at the birth of the baby. Shortly after the baby was born, I woke up knowing there was an angel in the house. It woke me up trying to read my mind while I was asleep. I woke up and asked what it wanted to know. It wanted to know about the baby. I also know how to open my mind to let angels read it easily, so I did that.
It turned out the angel showed up to check on the baby. Had it be born as planned? Was everything okay? I never knew there were angels who did this; and I pressed the angel. Now I wanted to know something. Who was this angel really? I wanted to see him.
It turned out it was the donkey which helped make room for Jesus when he was born. People may debate whether the souls of animals can be immortalized; but I was seeing one which had become immortal was still serving Jesus. Yes, even animals can have their rewards.
It also taught me how angels like to do their good deeds secretly, not wanting to take credit. That donkey loved Jesus and wouldn't have told me he was even around if I had kept sleeping and he could have read my mind. Oh what love that donkey had for all babies along with his love for Jesus.
It also showed me how God wants all of His creation to live in harmony and love. I think I had a glimpse of the world to come. This made me love God more too. Perhaps I err, but I figure if an idea makes me love God more, it's probably right. For sure, it's better than the idea I had before about things.
I wish you all could have met that donkey.
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I love this song because it shows me how God cares about everything.She sings that song with so much feeling and emotion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM_JRAPSwVM
Post by: Kerry on June 13, 2023, 08:52:45 am
Greetings Kerry and Helen,I apologize, Trevor, for my tardiness in responding. Please have patience with me as I am tired at the moment. I do want to answer you fully however, so didn't want to give a brief but inadequate answer.
Post by: Kerry on June 13, 2023, 08:48:49 am
I love that song too.Let me start with Noah.
I’ve heard the debates about whether our animals will be there in heaven.
I sure hope so. We’ve had wonderful dogs and other animals in our life .
Their souls came from God , therefore will go back to God.
As there are animals mentioned in the book Rev in heaven I can’t see why not.
But, the subject is far too deep for my tiny brain !
When all flesh was corrupted in the days before the Flood, some species were more corrupted than others. They got divided into clean and unclean. Ravens are unclean and doves are clean. The raven flew away and didn't come back while the dove came back with the olive branch.
Why were some animals corrupted? Not through their own sins. Rather they absorbed the hate and sins of the evil men of the time. Man was given dominion over everything, and the animals known later as unclean suffered more.
Now let us see how the animals as well as Noah and his sons made a covenant with God.
Genesis 9:8 And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,
9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;
10 And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.
The clean animals agreed to continue to be sacrifices in order to help people. Such sacrifices were not totally adequate in all things, but they did restore people to becoming clean. The blood of animals is good only for the physical life in human blood in the way they are similar. After the humans became ritually clean, they were supposed to repent spiritually by correcting any defects on their hearts. It is worth noting that any animal that struggled prior to being sacrificed was not sacrificed. The animal had to be willing to return to God. Injured or imperfect animals also could not be sacrificed. Just as we humans can lose our bearings when suffering, so too can animals -- and I am convinced a suffering animal might not remember to return to God if distracted by the suffering.
The unclean animals bore some of the results of men's sins which had not been repented of. Perhaps the people didn't know they had sinned; perhaps they were lying to themselves. Thus the unclean animals were assuming some of the earthly burden of men's sins. This lightened the burden on people making it easier for them to remain sane enough to repent.
The two goats show this too although both goats would have been ritually clean; but one was sacrificed to God while the other was driven away. I think that goat was driven over a cliff -- thus reminding us Judas. I see Jesus bearing the sins we repent of while Judas bears the ones we don't. His was a terrible fate, but perhaps someday he'll have a reward. Note that Jesus didn't try to stop him but told him to do whatever he was going to do and do it quickly.
Paul says all creation was groaning in a way Jesus stopped.
Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
I am glad the Temple system with its animal sacrifices got removed. We read where the prophets warned Israel that they were abusing the system, that their animal sacrifices were abominations unacceptable to God. Were they evil or stupid? I don't know; but they had the idea they could sin and sin again; and then they could kill an animal and everything would be fixed. The animals had suffered needlessly too long because of this attitude; and Jesus changed it.
A new connection was possible too between Heaven and earth -- that men and women could be ritually clean without the need of killing an animal.
Now then, what about the ravens and Elijah? Ever wonder why it was okay for Elijah to eat food served up by ravens?
It seems that some "unclean" animals were willing to serve God and could hear Him.
I Kings 17:2 And the word of the Lord came unto him, saying,
3 Get thee hence, and turn thee eastward, and hide thyself by the brook Cherith, that is before Jordan.
4 And it shall be, that thou shalt drink of the brook; and I have commanded the ravens to feed thee there.
5 So he went and did according unto the word of the Lord: for he went and dwelt by the brook Cherith, that is before Jordan.
6 And the ravens brought him bread and flesh in the morning, and bread and flesh in the evening; and he drank of the brook.
I see Elijah in a somewhat similar role with Jesus there. I think he was willing to exercise lawful dominion over the earth and all the animals -- loving dominion -- so the ravens were able to be tamed when God spoke to them. Part of the "groaning" of creation was changed. The ravens were no longer unclean the way they had been.
Now what about our pets, our cats and dogs? Both are carnivores, thus unclean. But I say they can benefit from associating with any member of the Body of Christ. I do not see God as "saving" animals -- no, I think that is our job. I would think if you and Dave had dogs and other wonderful animals, you can expect to see them again some day. Dogs may start off as "unclean" animals, but love can make them clean again.
I had a problem with the first cat I had. He was extraordinary in many ways and loved me tremendously; but he would turn his head aside or want to go away if I started to talking to him about Jesus. I feel sure he knew full well what I was talking about too since we had a wonderful mental connection. I won't go into that now in much detail, but my house was infested for a while with some nasty non-physical things -- I don't think they were demons since they didn't seem intelligent or powerful enough -- they were like mindless pests, like non-physical gnats or something. I ignored them until I saw they were bothering the cat. I lost patience then and told him he could catch and eat them. Cats are unclean animals, so catching and eating these unclean non-physical things wouldn't harm him. When I told him that, he immediately let me know he understood by waving a paw in the air as if he was catching things. So why the reluctance to listen to me talk about Jesus?
Jesus fixed many things with the animals but not everything. My cat was still suspicious about Jesus. The problem didn't get resolved until some time after he died. The mental connection between us led me to find him in a very nasty place -- dark and muddy. I rescued him and told him to search out Jesus. He also pranked me another time but appearing to me as a giant version of himself. Eventually though, I got to see him in the arms of Jesus. I was so relieved and happy. I think that happened because I loved that cat and he loved me.
Post by: Kerry on June 13, 2023, 07:41:39 am
. That reminded me of the angel and the talking donkey, the donkeys ability to see what the ‘prophet’ didn’t see is a good reminder to me that HE who created all things can use all things to get our attention.I would like to have a talk with the animal Jesus rode on.
Some of the best on FB for me, are the donkey rescue pictures.
Post by: TrevorL on June 12, 2023, 05:14:08 pm
I'’ve heard the debates about whether our animals will be there in heaven. I sure hope so. We’'ve had wonderful dogs and other animals in our life. Their souls came from God, therefore will go back to God. As there are animals mentioned in the book Rev in heaven I can'’t see why not. But, the subject is far too deep for my tiny brain!The animals in the Book of Revelation are symbolic. Dreams can seem to be powerful at times, but we need to distinguish between reality and imagination. I do not believe in immortal souls, especially immortal donkey souls.
Psalm 49:6-12 (KJV) 6 They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches; 7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him: 8 (For the redemption of their soul is precious, and it ceaseth for ever:) 9 That he should still live for ever, and not see corruption. 10 For he seeth that wise men die, likewise the fool and the brutish person perish, and leave their wealth to others. 11 Their inward thought is, that their houses shall continue for ever, and their dwelling places to all generations; they call their lands after their own names. 12 Nevertheless man being in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish. 13 This their way is their folly: yet their posterity approve their sayings. Selah. 14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling. 15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah. 16 Be not thou afraid when one is made rich, when the glory of his house is increased; 17 For when he dieth he shall carry nothing away: his glory shall not descend after him. 18 Though while he lived he blessed his soul: and men will praise thee, when thou doest well to thyself. 19 He shall go to the generation of his fathers; they shall never see light. 20 Man that is in honour, and understandeth not, is like the beasts that perish.
The Bible teaches that only some will be raised from the dead at the return of Jesus, some to everlasting life and some rejected at the Judgement Seat:
Daniel 12:2-3 (KJV): 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
2 Timothy 4:1,6-8 (KJV): 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
Kind regards
Trevor
Post by: Dave on June 12, 2023, 12:34:02 pm
Some of the best on FB for me, are the donkey rescue pictures.
Post by: Helen on June 12, 2023, 11:40:00 am
I’ve heard the debates about whether our animals will be there in heaven.
I sure hope so. We’ve had wonderful dogs and other animals in our life .
Their souls came from God , therefore will go back to God.
As there are animals mentioned in the book Rev in heaven I can’t see why not.
But, the subject is far too deep for my tiny brain !
Post by: Kerry on June 12, 2023, 06:13:03 am
I've talked before about my friend who was in prison when his girlfriend found out she was pregnant. I told him she could come visit me, and she did. She was very honest about the situation and told me she was thinking of having an abortion. I thought her a little selfish when she said she couldn't bear thinking of someone else adopting it -- if she couldn't have it, she thought it better to abort it. Behind that "selfishness" however, I could see she wanted the child, perhaps desperately.
I told her not to worry, that she could move in with me and her boyfriend could move in when he got out of prison. She did that, and she had a baby girl. I was quite happy at how that worked out. I'll get to how the donkey comes into the picture later, but let me skip forward now. He did move in when he got out; but it didn't last long. He moved out; and then she moved out. I have not seen her or the baby since; but I did run into him a few months ago and he gave me money, saying he owed it to me. I didn't remember that! But how wonderful that he remembered it and wanted to settle the debt. I had been worrying that maybe he had to pay child support and might be angry with me over talking her out of the abortion; but he wasn't.
Now for the donkey when it showed up at the birth of the baby. Shortly after the baby was born, I woke up knowing there was an angel in the house. It woke me up trying to read my mind while I was asleep. I woke up and asked what it wanted to know. It wanted to know about the baby. I also know how to open my mind to let angels read it easily, so I did that.
It turned out the angel showed up to check on the baby. Had it be born as planned? Was everything okay? I never knew there were angels who did this; and I pressed the angel. Now I wanted to know something. Who was this angel really? I wanted to see him.
It turned out it was the donkey which helped make room for Jesus when he was born. People may debate whether the souls of animals can be immortalized; but I was seeing one which had become immortal was still serving Jesus. Yes, even animals can have their rewards.
It also taught me how angels like to do their good deeds secretly, not wanting to take credit. That donkey loved Jesus and wouldn't have told me he was even around if I had kept sleeping and he could have read my mind. Oh what love that donkey had for all babies along with his love for Jesus.
It also showed me how God wants all of His creation to live in harmony and love. I think I had a glimpse of the world to come. This made me love God more too. Perhaps I err, but I figure if an idea makes me love God more, it's probably right. For sure, it's better than the idea I had before about things.
I wish you all could have met that donkey.
Try to remember what Jesus said about sparrows. I love this song because it shows me how God cares about everything.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM_JRAPSwVM